ruote tmp/log_2011-03-03.html

2011-03-03 09:21:38 utc jmettraux tosch_le: hello thanks again for yesterday
2011-03-03 09:22:26 utc tosch_le never mind, i have to thank you.
2011-03-03 09:22:38 utc tosch_le thanks for releasing the fixed gem :-)
2011-03-03 09:28:39 utc jmettraux it was still broken : I had forgotten public/ and views/
2011-03-03 09:30:31 utc tosch_le should have noticed that, too. the old gem versions in the README and the rails template were embarrassing, too.
2011-03-03 09:30:56 utc tosch_le i'm glad we have such a nice community :-)
2011-03-03 09:32:03 utc jmettraux :)
2011-03-03 10:16:14 utc jmettraux why are [ruby] devs always equating workflow to state machines ? Though they say my "photo workflow" or "my git workflow" but never think of it as a state-machine-esque thing
2011-03-03 10:21:19 utc tosch_le you are asking deep question, you areā€¦
2011-03-03 10:23:42 utc tosch_le could it be that state machines are so prominent in computer sience lectures?
2011-03-03 10:25:43 utc jmettraux maybe
2011-03-03 10:26:51 utc tosch_le another point is that many workflows may be implemented by using a state machine.
2011-03-03 10:27:08 utc jmettraux yes
2011-03-03 10:27:59 utc jmettraux ACTION digesting Torsten's lines
2011-03-03 10:27:59 utc tosch_le and in the end, human language is ambigous: there is no clear definition for the term "workflow"
2011-03-03 10:28:11 utc jmettraux whereas state machine is well defined
2011-03-03 10:29:04 utc tosch_le ACTION has the impression that devs like well defined things and dislike ambigousness.
2011-03-03 10:31:48 utc jmettraux for the record http://ruote.s3.amazonaws.com/mindmap.pdf
2011-03-03 10:36:01 utc jmettraux tosch_le: so forcing workflow into state machines, could it be that devs try to limit the workflows when modeling them with non devs ?
2011-03-03 10:36:33 utc tosch_le i suppose that could be right, yes.
2011-03-03 10:37:28 utc jmettraux for you, what's the difference between a state machine lib and a workflow engine lib ?
2011-03-03 10:37:34 utc tosch_le devs know state machines and their logic, they can handle them easily. most of them don't really know about workflows or business logic, they try to simplify them in order to understand
2011-03-03 10:37:43 utc tosch_le or better: handle them
2011-03-03 10:38:17 utc jmettraux ok
2011-03-03 10:39:13 utc tosch_le short answer: the difference lies in the names: a state machine lib gives you tools to implement a state machine. a workflow engine [lib] gives you tools to drive workflows.
2011-03-03 10:39:35 utc tosch_le so for me the difference is between state machine and workflow
2011-03-03 10:40:05 utc jmettraux there is a overlap for, let's say, simple workflows
2011-03-03 10:40:23 utc jmettraux when does the overlap stop ?
2011-03-03 10:40:43 utc tosch_le let's not call it overlap. there are different ways to implement a workflow, a state machine may be one of them.
2011-03-03 10:41:03 utc tosch_le both are different levels of abstraction imho
2011-03-03 10:41:34 utc tosch_le a workflow is about business logic, a state machine about program/software logic
2011-03-03 10:43:15 utc tosch_le some workflows may be implemented by using a state machine, some not.
2011-03-03 10:43:29 utc jmettraux when in a computer, business logic is symbolized by software logic
2011-03-03 10:43:47 utc jmettraux an invoice is symbolized/represented by a data structure
2011-03-03 10:43:49 utc tosch_le yes, that's what i mean: different levels of abstraction
2011-03-03 10:44:20 utc tosch_le the workflow itself has to be abstracted into a program logic
2011-03-03 10:44:30 utc jmettraux ok
2011-03-03 10:44:59 utc tosch_le that can be done by using a state machine, but also using an "operating system for business processes" ;-)
2011-03-03 10:45:05 utc tosch_le i like that claim for ruote
2011-03-03 10:45:24 utc jmettraux :-)
2011-03-03 10:46:07 utc jmettraux speaking of operating systems and the programs it hosts
2011-03-03 10:46:20 utc jmettraux this is the most brilliant workflow I've seen these days : http://teddziuba.com/2011/02/stupid-unix-tricks-workflow-control-with-gnu-make.html
2011-03-03 10:47:26 utc jmettraux workflow : operating system for business processes / state machine : attaching callbacks to files
2011-03-03 10:49:44 utc jmettraux running shoes on, I'll be back, many thanks for the conversation !
2011-03-03 12:28:50 utc jmettraux back
2011-03-03 12:37:24 utc tosch_le welcome back