ruote tmp/log_2011-02-21.html

2011-02-21 03:37:08 utc jmettraux fireofenigma: hello and welcome to #ruote
2011-02-21 03:37:48 utc fireofenigma been checking out ruote, reading the docs, and downloading the sample rails-apps.
2011-02-21 03:38:24 utc fireofenigma one thing that i'm trying to figure out, not sure if i'm missing something, but trying to figure out how the ruote fits in a rails app.
2011-02-21 03:39:04 utc jmettraux fits in which sense ?
2011-02-21 03:39:13 utc fireofenigma say you have a sales workflow, you have models and controllers to create and update sales.
2011-02-21 03:39:35 utc fireofenigma Sales go thru states like new, pending, in review, approved, live, archived, etc.
2011-02-21 03:39:49 utc jmettraux so you have a "sales" object ?
2011-02-21 03:40:05 utc fireofenigma and depending on what state it's in, someone of a particular role is in charge of updating the sale
2011-02-21 03:40:07 utc fireofenigma yes
2011-02-21 03:40:27 utc fireofenigma I would specify the participants in the workflow process definition.
2011-02-21 03:40:44 utc fireofenigma But how does that relate to the actual people who will be reviewing/udpating the sales isntances?
2011-02-21 03:40:54 utc jmettraux it depends
2011-02-21 03:41:19 utc jmettraux either you map participant names one to one with user names
2011-02-21 03:41:21 utc fireofenigma My initial thought was in the view, I look at the work item and see which participant has it.
2011-02-21 03:41:43 utc jmettraux either you have some logic that maps participant names to user names
2011-02-21 03:42:00 utc jmettraux in short, you have to decide if your participant are roles or users
2011-02-21 03:42:13 utc fireofenigma the part i think i understand
2011-02-21 03:43:17 utc fireofenigma where i grapple with is, all the logic to update the sale (the actual actions so that the work item can proceed to the next step/express) will be copmletely in my model
2011-02-21 03:43:25 utc fireofenigma s/controllers?
2011-02-21 03:44:04 utc jmettraux usually you have two kind of participants, human or automated
2011-02-21 03:44:06 utc fireofenigma So in essence, I'm using the workflow engine to control/manage what state the sale is in the workflow?
2011-02-21 03:44:33 utc jmettraux you use the workflow engine to orchestrate the state of your models
2011-02-21 03:44:46 utc jmettraux or simply to circulate tasks among participants
2011-02-21 03:44:54 utc jmettraux a human participant would update some workitem fields
2011-02-21 03:45:10 utc jmettraux an automated participant would change the state of some models based on workitem fields
2011-02-21 03:45:30 utc jmettraux of course, an automated participant can modify the the workitem fields as well
2011-02-21 03:47:23 utc fireofenigma that's where my thought is, which brings me to a question i have on what's a good way to analyze the problem to determine whether it's sipmler to use a state machine or workflow
2011-02-21 03:48:04 utc jmettraux well, it seems your mindset is state machine tuned
2011-02-21 03:49:55 utc jmettraux it's always simpler to use a state machine, but most of them are 1 state 1 resource
2011-02-21 03:50:06 utc jmettraux they're great for lifecycles and protocols
2011-02-21 03:50:12 utc jmettraux and they are great for limited workflows
2011-02-21 03:50:35 utc jmettraux a workflow engine is just like an interpreter
2011-02-21 03:50:44 utc jmettraux it takes a program and runs it
2011-02-21 03:51:00 utc jmettraux and that program can change the state of multiple things
2011-02-21 03:51:04 utc jmettraux a state machine is reactive
2011-02-21 03:51:22 utc jmettraux you change the state of a thing and possibly, transitions do fire
2011-02-21 03:51:37 utc jmettraux a state machine is declarative, a workflow is imperative
2011-02-21 03:57:29 utc fireofenigma thanks for the explanation, gives me a starting point to frame my particular situation
2011-02-21 03:59:02 utc fireofenigma one other question is--for 'typical' sales worfklow, do people tend to implement these as state machine or as workflow?
2011-02-21 03:59:16 utc fireofenigma or is such generalization possible?
2011-02-21 03:59:44 utc jmettraux it depends on the technical sophistication of the implementers
2011-02-21 03:59:53 utc jmettraux it depends on how does the workflow change
2011-02-21 04:00:13 utc jmettraux for a tiny rails app, frankly, go with a state machine
2011-02-21 04:00:21 utc jmettraux but don't call that a workflow
2011-02-21 04:00:29 utc jmettraux it's more of a
2011-02-21 04:00:35 utc jmettraux "sales case lifecycle"
2011-02-21 04:01:25 utc jmettraux sometimes it maps one to one with a workflow
2011-02-21 04:01:26 utc jmettraux sometimes not
2011-02-21 04:01:54 utc jmettraux when it changes for "it maps" to "it doesn't map", it means work (for the developer)
2011-02-21 04:02:38 utc jmettraux if ruote appears too complicated to you, please don't use it
2011-02-21 04:03:58 utc jmettraux if it's a one shot rails application that'll you leave behind with the next customer, then use a state machine
2011-02-21 10:36:22 utc tosch_le jmettraux: hello!
2011-02-21 10:36:57 utc tosch_le had a look an ruote-on-rails together with v2.2.0
2011-02-21 10:37:43 utc tosch_le there was just a minor problem in the definition model (Ruote::Parser vs. Ruote::Reader), but i could solve that quickly
2011-02-21 10:38:35 utc jmettraux hello, excellent news !
2011-02-21 10:38:41 utc jmettraux many thanks !
2011-02-21 10:40:25 utc tosch_le did an update to rails 3.0.4 as well
2011-02-21 10:40:34 utc tosch_le it was a pleasure, as always.
2011-02-21 10:42:36 utc jmettraux oh, that's great
2011-02-21 10:57:35 utc jmettraux tosch_le: how's the new job going ? Liking it ?
2011-02-21 10:58:00 utc tosch_le yeah, it's great.
2011-02-21 10:58:37 utc tosch_le having a lot of fun here.
2011-02-21 10:59:15 utc tosch_le one drawback, though: no need for ruote[-kit] until now
2011-02-21 10:59:22 utc tosch_le ;-)
2011-02-21 10:59:56 utc tosch_le but i successfully suggested to use rufus-scheduler for our app
2011-02-21 11:00:05 utc jmettraux oh nice
2011-02-21 11:01:03 utc jmettraux I'd be unhappy if you told me you forced ruote[kit] into your company
2011-02-21 11:02:16 utc tosch_le never would do that. always use the appropriate tools, that's the motto.
2011-02-21 11:09:55 utc jmettraux tosch_le: how goes the new look of ruote-on-rails ? No glitches ?
2011-02-21 11:11:07 utc tosch_le no, it looks great.
2011-02-21 11:13:27 utc jmettraux thanks :-)
2011-02-21 19:54:22 utc med_ Hello
2011-02-21 21:30:12 utc belucid hello med_