| 2010-06-29 16:30:36 utc | batok | is ruote only for ruby projects? |
| 2010-06-29 22:10:41 utc | crschmidt | I'm looking into various software which allows me to manage mechanical-turk like tasks with an internally managed set of users. Essentially, I have a set of 'human tasks' that I want to create, then manage a number of humans completing them, and then export the data. |
| 2010-06-29 22:11:06 utc | crschmidt | ruote seems like it's in a sort of related space; I saw a mention at one point that OpenWFE had support for 'human tasks' |
| 2010-06-29 22:11:19 utc | crschmidt | Is that kind of thing managed by ruote at all? |
| 2010-06-29 22:12:21 utc | crschmidt | ACTION is watching the video from Kenneth now... if vimeo wakes up :) |
| 2010-06-29 22:14:14 utc | crschmidt | It seems like the actual workflow of getting tasks to humans and taking back results from humans is perhaps not managed by ruote, but I'm not quite sure. |
| 2010-06-29 22:15:08 utc | crschmidt | yeah, Vimeo is not cooperating. Shame. |
| 2010-06-29 22:15:33 utc | crschmidt | it would be nice to have the slides from that presentation available without the video. |
| 2010-06-29 22:19:19 utc | crschmidt | Okay, it seems like human tasks would be managed by some external tool which would communicate with ruote over AMPQ (?), so this probably doesn't manage directly the handing of tasks to users and so on. |
| 2010-06-29 22:19:25 utc | crschmidt | Just of making a list of Things To Be Done. |
| 2010-06-29 22:19:41 utc | crschmidt | Unless I'm totally misreading. |
| 2010-06-29 23:48:15 utc | jmettraux | crschmidt: welcome to #ruote |
| 2010-06-29 23:49:09 utc | jmettraux | crschmidt: it's not necessary to have AMQP to communicate between the engine and ruote participants |
| 2010-06-29 23:50:00 utc | jmettraux | you can use something like StorageParticipant http://ruote.rubyforge.org/part/storage_participant.html to store workitems for later consumption by humans |
| 2010-06-29 23:50:30 utc | jmettraux | if there is no reply on this #channel, feel free to fire your questions on the mailing list : http://groups.google.com/group/openwferu-users |
| 2010-06-29 23:54:37 utc | crschmidt | Yep, I figured. I'm mostly just trying to understand how humans 'consume' workitems later; |
| 2010-06-29 23:54:55 utc | crschmidt | is that something where you develop your own interface/tools to display the workitems to users (or deliver them to their desks or whatever), or is something that ruote provides? |
| 2010-06-29 23:55:45 utc | jmettraux | you could develop your own, or use ruote-kit (http://github.com/tosch/ruote-kit) or take inspiration from it |
| 2010-06-29 23:56:13 utc | crschmidt | For example, I'm looking at http://gist.github.com/35914#file_qs.rb |
| 2010-06-29 23:56:18 utc | crschmidt | from http://openwferu.rubyforge.org/quickstart.html |
| 2010-06-29 23:56:53 utc | crschmidt | and I guess in this case the 'user selecting a picture' is replaced by a random number generator, so that's actually a useless example for my question :) |
| 2010-06-29 23:56:54 utc | jmettraux | please read the note at the beginning of that page |
| 2010-06-29 23:57:20 utc | jmettraux | moved to http://ruote.rubyforge.org/quickstart.html |
| 2010-06-29 23:57:41 utc | crschmidt | Yes, but that page no longer has the sort of example that I'm interested in :) |
| 2010-06-29 23:58:01 utc | jmettraux | http://github.com/jmettraux/ruote/blob/ruote2.1/examples/flickr_report.rb |
| 2010-06-29 23:58:17 utc | jmettraux | yet another random generator example |
| 2010-06-29 23:58:46 utc | crschmidt | yeah, so I'm just wondering: If I want actual humans to do the work done in lines 59-63 of that example |
| 2010-06-29 23:58:55 utc | crschmidt | then I have to build an interface for that, correct? |
| 2010-06-29 23:58:58 utc | jmettraux | it depends on your frontend |
| 2010-06-29 23:59:27 utc | jmettraux | yes, you have to provide your own interface |
| 2010-06-29 23:59:56 utc | crschmidt | Okay. Cool. |
| 2010-06-30 00:00:16 utc | crschmidt | Then my understanding of ruote is not completely off-base, which is good :) |
| 2010-06-30 00:00:23 utc | jmettraux | :) |
| 2010-06-30 00:00:46 utc | crschmidt | So in theory, you could use ruote to take in a bunch of data, follow a bunch of processes, then 'fork' the data off to Mechnical Turk, and wait for responses from mechnaical turk, then continue to process it |
| 2010-06-30 00:01:08 utc | crschmidt | Or you could replace 'mechanical turk' with 'any other frontend that you build, which takes a workitem from ruote and then returns it back to ruote with the completed data' |
| 2010-06-30 00:01:34 utc | jmettraux | exactly |
| 2010-06-30 00:01:46 utc | crschmidt | but there is not something built into ruote that says "Okay, you've got a stack of workitems which you have said need to be done by humans; i will follow the rules in this .rb file to generate a UI and display the workitem to a human and collect their response" |
| 2010-06-30 00:02:00 utc | jmettraux | no |
| 2010-06-30 00:02:06 utc | jmettraux | no UI concerns in ruote itself |
| 2010-06-30 00:02:08 utc | crschmidt | Cool. |
| 2010-06-30 00:02:56 utc | crschmidt | I'll be honest and say that I'm not entirely sure I understand why you would need something that manages tasks like this; the examples seem like they could all be completed by much less complex systems, but that's kind of the flaw of examples; they only show the simple cases, and the complex cases are done by people actually using the tool :) |
| 2010-06-30 00:03:24 utc | jmettraux | whoah, that's well put |
| 2010-06-30 00:04:05 utc | crschmidt | ACTION has written enough open source software to know that users always complain that the examples never tell them what they need to know |
| 2010-06-30 00:04:25 utc | crschmidt | (When really, what the examples don't do is tell them exactly how to accomplish their task. Duh! that's why they're examples!) |
| 2010-06-30 00:04:31 utc | crschmidt | Anyway, thanks for the clarification :) |
| 2010-06-30 00:05:02 utc | jmettraux | :) are you a friend of David ? |
| 2010-06-30 00:05:18 utc | crschmidt | I have a brother named David, but I don't know anyone related to ruote named david |
| 2010-06-30 00:05:32 utc | jmettraux | Meego ? |
| 2010-06-30 00:05:50 utc | crschmidt | I'm vaugely aware that meego is the next operating system for my phone, but that's about it |
| 2010-06-30 00:06:00 utc | jmettraux | ok |
| 2010-06-30 00:06:36 utc | crschmidt | I just found ruote by Googling looking for existing software which supports human interface tasks, which took me to a 4-year old post on OpenWFE which brought me here eventually :) |
| 2010-06-30 00:06:48 utc | jmettraux | woah, time files |
| 2010-06-30 00:06:51 utc | jmettraux | flies |
| 2010-06-30 00:10:11 utc | crschmidt | For the record, I am working to build something that is akin to a slightly more limited tool like Mechanical Turk, designed to allow humans to manually generate data based on inputs. I was exploring the space to ensure that I wasn't duplicating work, especially sine the hope is tha tthe tool I'm building will eventually be open source. |
| 2010-06-30 00:11:27 utc | crschmidt | It seems likely that I'm not stomping directly on ruote in that space, which is always a good thing :) |
| 2010-06-30 00:22:23 utc | jmettraux | sorry, I was away for a coffee |
| 2010-06-30 00:22:58 utc | crschmidt | np |
| 2010-06-30 00:23:16 utc | jmettraux | looking forward to see how your project develops |