ruote log_2010-06-29

2010-06-29 16:30:36 utc batok is ruote only for ruby projects?
2010-06-29 22:10:41 utc crschmidt I'm looking into various software which allows me to manage mechanical-turk like tasks with an internally managed set of users. Essentially, I have a set of 'human tasks' that I want to create, then manage a number of humans completing them, and then export the data.
2010-06-29 22:11:06 utc crschmidt ruote seems like it's in a sort of related space; I saw a mention at one point that OpenWFE had support for 'human tasks'
2010-06-29 22:11:19 utc crschmidt Is that kind of thing managed by ruote at all?
2010-06-29 22:12:21 utc crschmidt ACTION is watching the video from Kenneth now... if vimeo wakes up :)
2010-06-29 22:14:14 utc crschmidt It seems like the actual workflow of getting tasks to humans and taking back results from humans is perhaps not managed by ruote, but I'm not quite sure.
2010-06-29 22:15:08 utc crschmidt yeah, Vimeo is not cooperating. Shame.
2010-06-29 22:15:33 utc crschmidt it would be nice to have the slides from that presentation available without the video.
2010-06-29 22:19:19 utc crschmidt Okay, it seems like human tasks would be managed by some external tool which would communicate with ruote over AMPQ (?), so this probably doesn't manage directly the handing of tasks to users and so on.
2010-06-29 22:19:25 utc crschmidt Just of making a list of Things To Be Done.
2010-06-29 22:19:41 utc crschmidt Unless I'm totally misreading.
2010-06-29 23:48:15 utc jmettraux crschmidt: welcome to #ruote
2010-06-29 23:49:09 utc jmettraux crschmidt: it's not necessary to have AMQP to communicate between the engine and ruote participants
2010-06-29 23:50:00 utc jmettraux you can use something like StorageParticipant http://ruote.rubyforge.org/part/storage_participant.html to store workitems for later consumption by humans
2010-06-29 23:50:30 utc jmettraux if there is no reply on this #channel, feel free to fire your questions on the mailing list : http://groups.google.com/group/openwferu-users
2010-06-29 23:54:37 utc crschmidt Yep, I figured. I'm mostly just trying to understand how humans 'consume' workitems later;
2010-06-29 23:54:55 utc crschmidt is that something where you develop your own interface/tools to display the workitems to users (or deliver them to their desks or whatever), or is something that ruote provides?
2010-06-29 23:55:45 utc jmettraux you could develop your own, or use ruote-kit (http://github.com/tosch/ruote-kit) or take inspiration from it
2010-06-29 23:56:13 utc crschmidt For example, I'm looking at http://gist.github.com/35914#file_qs.rb
2010-06-29 23:56:18 utc crschmidt from http://openwferu.rubyforge.org/quickstart.html
2010-06-29 23:56:53 utc crschmidt and I guess in this case the 'user selecting a picture' is replaced by a random number generator, so that's actually a useless example for my question :)
2010-06-29 23:56:54 utc jmettraux please read the note at the beginning of that page
2010-06-29 23:57:20 utc jmettraux moved to http://ruote.rubyforge.org/quickstart.html
2010-06-29 23:57:41 utc crschmidt Yes, but that page no longer has the sort of example that I'm interested in :)
2010-06-29 23:58:01 utc jmettraux http://github.com/jmettraux/ruote/blob/ruote2.1/examples/flickr_report.rb
2010-06-29 23:58:17 utc jmettraux yet another random generator example
2010-06-29 23:58:46 utc crschmidt yeah, so I'm just wondering: If I want actual humans to do the work done in lines 59-63 of that example
2010-06-29 23:58:55 utc crschmidt then I have to build an interface for that, correct?
2010-06-29 23:58:58 utc jmettraux it depends on your frontend
2010-06-29 23:59:27 utc jmettraux yes, you have to provide your own interface
2010-06-29 23:59:56 utc crschmidt Okay. Cool.
2010-06-30 00:00:16 utc crschmidt Then my understanding of ruote is not completely off-base, which is good :)
2010-06-30 00:00:23 utc jmettraux :)
2010-06-30 00:00:46 utc crschmidt So in theory, you could use ruote to take in a bunch of data, follow a bunch of processes, then 'fork' the data off to Mechnical Turk, and wait for responses from mechnaical turk, then continue to process it
2010-06-30 00:01:08 utc crschmidt Or you could replace 'mechanical turk' with 'any other frontend that you build, which takes a workitem from ruote and then returns it back to ruote with the completed data'
2010-06-30 00:01:34 utc jmettraux exactly
2010-06-30 00:01:46 utc crschmidt but there is not something built into ruote that says "Okay, you've got a stack of workitems which you have said need to be done by humans; i will follow the rules in this .rb file to generate a UI and display the workitem to a human and collect their response"
2010-06-30 00:02:00 utc jmettraux no
2010-06-30 00:02:06 utc jmettraux no UI concerns in ruote itself
2010-06-30 00:02:08 utc crschmidt Cool.
2010-06-30 00:02:56 utc crschmidt I'll be honest and say that I'm not entirely sure I understand why you would need something that manages tasks like this; the examples seem like they could all be completed by much less complex systems, but that's kind of the flaw of examples; they only show the simple cases, and the complex cases are done by people actually using the tool :)
2010-06-30 00:03:24 utc jmettraux whoah, that's well put
2010-06-30 00:04:05 utc crschmidt ACTION has written enough open source software to know that users always complain that the examples never tell them what they need to know
2010-06-30 00:04:25 utc crschmidt (When really, what the examples don't do is tell them exactly how to accomplish their task. Duh! that's why they're examples!)
2010-06-30 00:04:31 utc crschmidt Anyway, thanks for the clarification :)
2010-06-30 00:05:02 utc jmettraux :) are you a friend of David ?
2010-06-30 00:05:18 utc crschmidt I have a brother named David, but I don't know anyone related to ruote named david
2010-06-30 00:05:32 utc jmettraux Meego ?
2010-06-30 00:05:50 utc crschmidt I'm vaugely aware that meego is the next operating system for my phone, but that's about it
2010-06-30 00:06:00 utc jmettraux ok
2010-06-30 00:06:36 utc crschmidt I just found ruote by Googling looking for existing software which supports human interface tasks, which took me to a 4-year old post on OpenWFE which brought me here eventually :)
2010-06-30 00:06:48 utc jmettraux woah, time files
2010-06-30 00:06:51 utc jmettraux flies
2010-06-30 00:10:11 utc crschmidt For the record, I am working to build something that is akin to a slightly more limited tool like Mechanical Turk, designed to allow humans to manually generate data based on inputs. I was exploring the space to ensure that I wasn't duplicating work, especially sine the hope is tha tthe tool I'm building will eventually be open source.
2010-06-30 00:11:27 utc crschmidt It seems likely that I'm not stomping directly on ruote in that space, which is always a good thing :)
2010-06-30 00:22:23 utc jmettraux sorry, I was away for a coffee
2010-06-30 00:22:58 utc crschmidt np
2010-06-30 00:23:16 utc jmettraux looking forward to see how your project develops