ruote log_2010-03-26

2010-03-26 00:48:20 utc jmettraux eddies: hi !
2010-03-26 00:48:25 utc eddies lo
2010-03-26 00:49:06 utc eddies was hoping to find out more about using ruote-kit with warbler
2010-03-26 00:49:36 utc jmettraux first time warbler gets mentioned in #ruote
2010-03-26 00:49:45 utc eddies and ultimately if we could get route-kit to support warbler (e.g. rake war)
2010-03-26 00:50:07 utc jmettraux the ruote-kit main developers are on GMT+1
2010-03-26 00:50:31 utc eddies 2am there
2010-03-26 00:51:04 utc jmettraux I guess the classical, read error message, fix, repeat... could do it
2010-03-26 00:51:57 utc eddies yeah, every error message I get through has lead to another, then another =)
2010-03-26 00:52:28 utc eddies (the other, popular classical process)
2010-03-26 00:52:39 utc jmettraux it's the same process
2010-03-26 00:53:07 utc jmettraux well "fix" vs "tweak at random"
2010-03-26 00:53:36 utc eddies I figured w/ ruote's Java background there might be some general interest in this approach
2010-03-26 00:53:47 utc jmettraux there is
2010-03-26 00:53:57 utc jmettraux where should we start ?
2010-03-26 00:54:06 utc eddies I saw Magnolia did some integration a couple years ago
2010-03-26 00:54:18 utc jmettraux yes, I did it
2010-03-26 00:54:22 utc eddies oh =)
2010-03-26 00:54:30 utc jmettraux but unfortunately, they went the groovy way
2010-03-26 00:54:49 utc eddies right, i saw it wasn't in trunk any longer
2010-03-26 00:55:13 utc jmettraux what's the first error message ?
2010-03-26 00:56:01 utc eddies $ warble
2010-03-26 00:56:02 utc eddies rake aborted!
2010-03-26 00:56:06 utc eddies eww
2010-03-26 00:56:07 utc eddies sorry
2010-03-26 00:56:19 utc jmettraux http://gist.github.com/
2010-03-26 00:56:39 utc eddies http://pastebin.com/XGQvK7Jp
2010-03-26 00:56:57 utc eddies ah, that works too
2010-03-26 00:57:11 utc jmettraux `require': no such file to load -- jruby-jars
2010-03-26 00:57:47 utc jmettraux are you using rvm or plain jruby ?
2010-03-26 00:58:35 utc eddies just native ruby (1.8.7)
2010-03-26 00:58:46 utc eddies but I can build other simple sinatra apps
2010-03-26 00:58:49 utc eddies with warbler
2010-03-26 00:59:07 utc jmettraux [sudo] gem install jruby-jars
2010-03-26 00:59:15 utc eddies and I have jruby-jars installed, so I think it's a bit of a spurious error message
2010-03-26 01:00:06 utc eddies already have jruby-jars 1.4.0 installed
2010-03-26 01:00:26 utc eddies if you clone ruote-kit and run warble or warble config, you'll see the same error
2010-03-26 01:00:42 utc jmettraux not sure
2010-03-26 01:01:11 utc eddies I've narrowed it down to ruote-kit's Rakefile
2010-03-26 01:01:26 utc eddies just nuking the Rakefile at least lets warble build the war
2010-03-26 01:01:52 utc jmettraux aah
2010-03-26 01:02:21 utc jmettraux warble can be run on ruby or jruby ?
2010-03-26 01:02:31 utc eddies I'm running it w/ ruby
2010-03-26 01:02:44 utc jmettraux 1.8.7p71 on Snow Leo ?
2010-03-26 01:02:47 utc jmettraux p72 ?
2010-03-26 01:02:59 utc eddies p72
2010-03-26 01:03:22 utc eddies (1.8.7 p72 on Snow Leopard)
2010-03-26 01:03:59 utc jmettraux cloning
2010-03-26 01:04:04 utc eddies cool
2010-03-26 01:04:10 utc eddies thanks for looking at this...
2010-03-26 01:04:31 utc jmettraux if there is nobody around, a post on the mailing list is the way to go
2010-03-26 01:04:52 utc eddies i may have to do that...i think my ride for dinner is about to arrive
2010-03-26 01:05:12 utc jmettraux if warbler doesn't work
2010-03-26 01:05:28 utc jmettraux it's easy to run ruote inside a jruby interpreter inside of a java app
2010-03-26 01:08:14 utc jmettraux gem install bundler; bundle install; ...
2010-03-26 01:08:31 utc eddies well, i was hoping to have the rest api exposed
2010-03-26 01:09:10 utc jmettraux http://gist.github.com/344353 OK, going to next level and tinkering with Rakefile
2010-03-26 01:09:11 utc eddies and for the community i'm in, being able to have ruote wrapped up as a war is probably the easiest way to get folks using it
2010-03-26 01:10:22 utc eddies sorry, i've got to run. they're closing the conference room i'm in. i'll check in again on irc and the list later tonight
2010-03-26 01:10:33 utc jmettraux ok
2010-03-26 01:10:34 utc jmettraux ciao
2010-03-26 01:10:53 utc eddies end of conference...no more room, no more wifi. thanks. ciao
2010-03-26 01:17:42 utc jmettraux OK, answered at http://groups.google.com/group/openwferu-users/browse_thread/thread/d063d4a25ce7ab8e
2010-03-26 04:28:02 utc jmettraux darmou: hi
2010-03-26 04:28:20 utc darmou hi jmettraux
2010-03-26 04:28:36 utc darmou setting up rufus for sending out weekly reports
2010-03-26 04:28:44 utc jmettraux ok
2010-03-26 04:29:11 utc darmou the inerface changes the schedule time and it starts a schedule based on the SheduledQuery object from db
2010-03-26 04:29:40 utc darmou it's cool how you can name jobs and then remove them as well as add them
2010-03-26 04:29:57 utc jmettraux :)
2010-03-26 06:40:47 utc jmettraux charles_: hi !
2010-03-26 06:41:04 utc charles_ Hi, I am trying to determine if ruote is the right tool for the following. Do you have a minute?
2010-03-26 06:41:15 utc jmettraux yes, please fire your questions
2010-03-26 06:42:11 utc charles_ I want to have a stream of people sending in their emai addresses.
2010-03-26 06:42:23 utc charles_ Some analysis takes place
2010-03-26 06:42:45 utc charles_ Then a date or series of dates are computed for each person
2010-03-26 06:43:10 utc charles_ An email will be sent on the computed dates for each of those individuals
2010-03-26 06:43:45 utc charles_ A text message is also sent
2010-03-26 06:43:58 utc charles_ That is basically it, simple right?
2010-03-26 06:44:16 utc charles_ Oh
2010-03-26 06:44:34 utc charles_ The number of people will eventually be in the millions
2010-03-26 06:44:50 utc charles_ Ok now I should be done.
2010-03-26 06:45:08 utc jmettraux a million in one day ?
2010-03-26 06:45:30 utc charles_ no over perhaps months
2010-03-26 06:45:45 utc jmettraux the series of dates, is it finite ?
2010-03-26 06:45:51 utc charles_ but perhaps a million text messages will be sent
2010-03-26 06:46:21 utc jmettraux I'd use a database and a cron job
2010-03-26 06:46:42 utc jmettraux the process doesn't seem to change
2010-03-26 06:47:56 utc jmettraux email comes in, serie is computed and stored
2010-03-26 06:47:57 utc charles_ When a person will be notified can change over time.
2010-03-26 06:48:34 utc charles_ A person can add to the notification
2010-03-26 06:49:03 utc jmettraux it's not the first you come in this channel, right ?
2010-03-26 06:49:05 utc charles_ He can request that a message be sent to a government
2010-03-26 06:49:45 utc charles_ I was here a bit about 6 months ago. That job terminated unexpectedly
2010-03-26 06:49:58 utc jmettraux welcome back
2010-03-26 06:50:09 utc charles_ Thanks so much.
2010-03-26 06:50:25 utc charles_ Sorry to take a while to spit out the question.
2010-03-26 06:50:31 utc jmettraux no worries
2010-03-26 06:50:40 utc charles_ Can I give you more info>
2010-03-26 06:50:47 utc charles_ ?
2010-03-26 06:50:51 utc jmettraux basically there is 1 case per user / email, right ?
2010-03-26 06:51:05 utc charles_ well it is more complicated.
2010-03-26 06:51:46 utc charles_ Depending upon the geographic location an email is sent to the government and a package is sent to the email reciepient
2010-03-26 06:52:15 utc jmettraux ok
2010-03-26 06:52:41 utc jmettraux remember : this channel is logged, so maybe you don't want to leak your business plan too much
2010-03-26 06:53:10 utc charles_ No worries this is for a non profit.
2010-03-26 06:53:14 utc jmettraux ok
2010-03-26 06:53:17 utc charles_ They want others to do the same thing
2010-03-26 06:53:34 utc charles_ It will bennifit many, hopefully
2010-03-26 06:53:37 utc jmettraux well
2010-03-26 06:53:51 utc jmettraux my gut-feeling says db + cron
2010-03-26 06:54:05 utc jmettraux since you want a lot of "users"
2010-03-26 06:54:16 utc charles_ Good, I respect your oppionon greatly
2010-03-26 06:54:26 utc charles_ Yes there are very many
2010-03-26 06:54:53 utc charles_ probably 10k per date
2010-03-26 06:55:04 utc charles_ 10k users that is.
2010-03-26 06:55:17 utc jmettraux then it all depends on the granularity of the changes you mentioned
2010-03-26 06:56:05 utc charles_ Changes take place in the following types of situations.
2010-03-26 06:56:16 utc charles_ Change of address or change of college
2010-03-26 06:56:38 utc charles_ Change of phone number or change of email
2010-03-26 06:56:49 utc jmettraux Change of personal information
2010-03-26 06:57:09 utc charles_ Change of government form for the service
2010-03-26 06:57:22 utc jmettraux which triggers recomputation of data series
2010-03-26 06:57:31 utc jmettraux date series
2010-03-26 06:57:31 utc charles_ This is actually expected to change a great deal over the next few years
2010-03-26 06:57:58 utc charles_ Date series is static if the other things do not chnage
2010-03-26 06:58:05 utc jmettraux do the rules change for everybody at the same time ?
2010-03-26 06:58:20 utc jmettraux (the rules that generate the series)
2010-03-26 06:58:59 utc charles_ The rules are are the following form:
2010-03-26 06:59:12 utc charles_ Find location of addressee
2010-03-26 06:59:22 utc charles_ Locate district
2010-03-26 06:59:47 utc charles_ Find electronic service for district
2010-03-26 07:00:04 utc charles_ determine new dates from service
2010-03-26 07:00:30 utc charles_ Monitor
2010-03-26 07:00:48 utc charles_ changes made by the electronic service
2010-03-26 07:00:59 utc charles_ Relatively simple.
2010-03-26 07:02:09 utc jmettraux how does the input occur ?
2010-03-26 07:02:24 utc charles_ Several ways
2010-03-26 07:02:39 utc charles_ People enter dates by hand.
2010-03-26 07:02:51 utc jmettraux on paper ?
2010-03-26 07:02:58 utc charles_ That may cause lots of registered users to have data udated
2010-03-26 07:03:10 utc charles_ Paper yes
2010-03-26 07:03:20 utc charles_ also web based
2010-03-26 07:03:37 utc charles_ also the system should go out and query electronic services
2010-03-26 07:04:18 utc charles_ About several hundred services every other week
2010-03-26 07:04:47 utc jmettraux push and pull
2010-03-26 07:04:53 utc charles_ yep
2010-03-26 07:05:41 utc charles_ Perhaps just a state machine app?
2010-03-26 07:06:01 utc jmettraux there is always state
2010-03-26 07:06:11 utc jmettraux I would implement workers
2010-03-26 07:06:12 utc charles_ is that a question?
2010-03-26 07:06:23 utc charles_ OK
2010-03-26 07:06:47 utc charles_ Can you point me at a doc or a pastie?
2010-03-26 07:06:48 utc jmettraux 1 worker would run the computations on new/updated "records"
2010-03-26 07:07:04 utc charles_ makes sense
2010-03-26 07:07:08 utc jmettraux 1 worker would handle delivery of emails
2010-03-26 07:07:20 utc jmettraux 1 worker would do batch uploads
2010-03-26 07:07:21 utc charles_ I was thinking that also
2010-03-26 07:07:32 utc jmettraux and a webapp for, well edition,
2010-03-26 07:07:38 utc charles_ Not following the batch uploads idea
2010-03-26 07:07:39 utc jmettraux sorry, no pastie or links
2010-03-26 07:07:54 utc jmettraux batch upload : paper
2010-03-26 07:07:57 utc jmettraux ah sorry
2010-03-26 07:07:59 utc charles_ O
2010-03-26 07:08:03 utc charles_ IC
2010-03-26 07:08:14 utc jmettraux I guess you would have operators than use the webapp to change the "records"
2010-03-26 07:08:45 utc charles_ What do you mean by operators in this context?
2010-03-26 07:08:57 utc jmettraux humans
2010-03-26 07:09:22 utc charles_ Yes as info comes in I was planning on having people change and enter date info
2010-03-26 07:09:39 utc charles_ Those dates would be assocaited with districts
2010-03-26 07:10:05 utc charles_ Then some process would need to check to make sure all the emails for that district get updated
2010-03-26 07:10:25 utc jmettraux ok
2010-03-26 07:11:25 utc charles_ One second more if I might?
2010-03-26 07:11:39 utc jmettraux please
2010-03-26 07:11:40 utc charles_ I have this BPM view of ruote.
2010-03-26 07:12:14 utc charles_ I mean by that: Some event happens (timer, message comes in, ...) then some action is triggered
2010-03-26 07:12:53 utc charles_ I think my view is not consistent with the reality. Can you help me get my view aligned with the reality?
2010-03-26 07:13:07 utc jmettraux ok
2010-03-26 07:13:40 utc jmettraux what is your question ?
2010-03-26 07:13:41 utc charles_ I would expect a new data to come in and have acted like a triggering event to cause an update
2010-03-26 07:14:01 utc charles_ That was the first case I thought ruote would have been useful.
2010-03-26 07:14:04 utc charles_ Next
2010-03-26 07:14:29 utc jmettraux reacting to events is not limited to "BPM" tools
2010-03-26 07:14:38 utc charles_ agreed
2010-03-26 07:15:26 utc charles_ But I thought that since lots of unordered events came in at unexplicit times that BPM was a good candidate
2010-03-26 07:15:43 utc jmettraux BPM means "Business Process Management"
2010-03-26 07:15:58 utc charles_ agreed
2010-03-26 07:16:26 utc jmettraux ruote is a workflow engine
2010-03-26 07:16:30 utc charles_ The system I used allowed for triggering of actions on timer events and
2010-03-26 07:16:35 utc charles_ OK
2010-03-26 07:16:44 utc jmettraux which system were you using ?
2010-03-26 07:17:01 utc charles_ It was a proprietry system at Kronos
2010-03-26 07:17:34 utc charles_ It also m onitored many other events other than timers
2010-03-26 07:17:55 utc jmettraux ok
2010-03-26 07:18:25 utc charles_ you are saying, workflow and event action triggers are not the ssame sorts of things
2010-03-26 07:18:49 utc jmettraux yes
2010-03-26 07:18:54 utc charles_ I thought the wf responded to events though?
2010-03-26 07:19:17 utc jmettraux does that make them "the same sort of thing" ?
2010-03-26 07:19:32 utc jmettraux what about workflows triggered by timers ?
2010-03-26 07:19:57 utc jmettraux granted, the timer waking up is an event
2010-03-26 07:20:09 utc charles_ Yes
2010-03-26 07:20:20 utc charles_ and an update of an address is an event
2010-03-26 07:20:33 utc charles_ and the change of district is an event
2010-03-26 07:20:41 utc jmettraux yes
2010-03-26 07:20:50 utc charles_ and the change of scheduled dates are events
2010-03-26 07:21:10 utc jmettraux and a workflow is not an event action trigger
2010-03-26 07:21:25 utc charles_ O
2010-03-26 07:22:06 utc charles_ not even with amqp, ;(
2010-03-26 07:22:13 utc charles_ I thought it was.
2010-03-26 07:22:30 utc charles_ What is a workflow then?
2010-03-26 07:22:31 utc jmettraux "coordination of actions" == "event action"
2010-03-26 07:22:34 utc jmettraux I don't think so
2010-03-26 07:22:48 utc charles_ Sorry, what?
2010-03-26 07:23:04 utc jmettraux 16:21 charles_: you are saying, workflow and event action triggers are not the ssame sorts of things
2010-03-26 07:23:04 utc jmettraux 16:22 jmettraux: yes
2010-03-26 07:23:54 utc jmettraux IMHO, an "event action trigger" is a part of a workflow
2010-03-26 07:23:58 utc charles_ I know, but I was trying to understand what you were saying. I did not view it that way
2010-03-26 07:24:01 utc jmettraux not a workflow per se
2010-03-26 07:24:13 utc charles_ Ok
2010-03-26 07:24:28 utc charles_ so there is a piece I am missing, what is missing?
2010-03-26 07:24:47 utc charles_ what else is needed to make it a workflow
2010-03-26 07:24:53 utc jmettraux orchestration of activities ?
2010-03-26 07:25:30 utc charles_ I thought that meant trigger action pairs?
2010-03-26 07:25:41 utc jmettraux link ?
2010-03-26 07:25:57 utc jmettraux what is "trigger action pairs" ?
2010-03-26 07:26:13 utc charles_ example of triggers:
2010-03-26 07:26:45 utc charles_ statement completes executing, timer goes off, email comes in
2010-03-26 07:26:52 utc jmettraux charles_: why are you inundating this channel with requirement details ?
2010-03-26 07:27:08 utc jmettraux I won't implement it for you
2010-03-26 07:27:39 utc charles_ Gee, you already convinced me to do it using cron and db, I thought we were just talking, sorry
2010-03-26 07:28:03 utc jmettraux no worries
2010-03-26 07:28:29 utc charles_ Ok thanks, have a great night and weekend. caio
2010-03-26 07:28:36 utc jmettraux ciao !
2010-03-26 07:33:02 utc jmettraux eddies: welcome back
2010-03-26 07:33:18 utc jmettraux argh
2010-03-26 07:51:58 utc jmettraux kennethkalmer: many thanks for the songs you shared, they are beautiful
2010-03-26 07:52:13 utc kennethkalmer it is a pleasure !
2010-03-26 07:52:17 utc kennethkalmer how are you doing ?
2010-03-26 07:52:52 utc jmettraux and you ?
2010-03-26 07:53:17 utc kennethkalmer on the path to recovery, so I'm doing well thanks
2010-03-26 07:53:27 utc jmettraux great, coffee ?
2010-03-26 07:53:28 utc kennethkalmer just forwarded an interesting mail to you, haven't responded yet
2010-03-26 07:53:31 utc kennethkalmer yes please !
2010-03-26 07:53:53 utc jmettraux aaah
2010-03-26 07:54:01 utc jmettraux replying now
2010-03-26 07:54:38 utc kennethkalmer oh thanks, my jruby-fu is none
2010-03-26 07:54:51 utc kennethkalmer but it is great to see stanford playing with it :)
2010-03-26 07:56:12 utc jmettraux there was lots of visits from there these last 4 days
2010-03-26 07:56:18 utc jmettraux now I understand
2010-03-26 07:56:41 utc jmettraux replied, with CC to you
2010-03-26 07:56:59 utc kennethkalmer great stuff
2010-03-26 08:00:20 utc jmettraux bundler hijacks the loadpath
2010-03-26 08:02:14 utc kennethkalmer which is a pain, but also a blessing
2010-03-26 08:02:20 utc jmettraux :)
2010-03-26 09:01:40 utc tosch_le cc
2010-03-26 09:01:46 utc tosch_le hi folks!
2010-03-26 09:01:50 utc jmettraux tosch_le: hi !
2010-03-26 09:03:09 utc kennethkalmer hi tosch_le!
2010-03-26 12:50:45 utc riddley jmettraux, do you like corny jokes?
2010-03-26 12:50:59 utc jmettraux hi
2010-03-26 12:51:06 utc riddley hi :)
2010-03-26 12:51:24 utc jmettraux I'm from Europe, no worries
2010-03-26 12:51:37 utc riddley my buddy and I who are learning ruby came up with this one the other day
2010-03-26 12:51:44 utc riddley why are all ruby programmers poor?
2010-03-26 12:51:52 utc jmettraux no clue !
2010-03-26 12:52:03 utc riddley cuz they're just barely .each'in out a living
2010-03-26 12:52:15 utc jmettraux lol !
2010-03-26 12:52:19 utc riddley sorry :)
2010-03-26 12:52:26 utc jmettraux :)
2010-03-26 12:54:25 utc jmettraux riddley: how are you doing ?
2010-03-26 12:54:43 utc riddley jmettraux, not bad. it's rainy today and I like that. :) You?
2010-03-26 12:55:21 utc jmettraux it was raining yesterday, but today was cloudy, doing good :)
2010-03-26 12:58:36 utc riddley I need a new job so bad... it's not even funny.
2010-03-26 12:58:44 utc jmettraux where are you based ?
2010-03-26 13:00:26 utc jmettraux are you looking for a Ruby job ?
2010-03-26 13:02:27 utc riddley Likely no... I'm still trying to become an intermediate rubist. I have no formal background in programming... I'm a sysadmin. To make a sysadmin, you mate a network guy with a programmer girl and deprive the child of oxygen for far too long :)
2010-03-26 13:02:42 utc jmettraux ouch
2010-03-26 13:02:50 utc riddley hehe
2010-03-26 13:03:14 utc jmettraux double the deprivation time and you get a windows sysadmin
2010-03-26 13:03:33 utc riddley lol!
2010-03-26 13:03:35 utc riddley exactly
2010-03-26 13:05:47 utc kennethkalmer riddley: chef might be a comfortable angle of getting more done with ruby
2010-03-26 13:05:58 utc riddley kennethkalmer, we're a puppet shop
2010-03-26 13:06:02 utc kennethkalmer touche
2010-03-26 13:06:05 utc riddley hehe
2010-03-26 13:06:06 utc kennethkalmer as long as there is ruby
2010-03-26 13:06:49 utc riddley we're thinking of re-imagining the trend-analysis suite we wrote (in perl+php) in ruby... yaketystats.org
2010-03-26 13:08:32 utc riddley we'd like to integrate our trend-analysis with up/down monitoring (we're using Nagios now) but our dreams exceed our skills.
2010-03-26 13:08:48 utc jmettraux nice documentation
2010-03-26 13:09:37 utc riddley thanks
2010-03-26 13:10:48 utc riddley don't miss the video... you can hear my lovely voice lol
2010-03-26 13:10:54 utc jmettraux :)
2010-03-26 13:11:00 utc jmettraux I will
2010-03-26 14:26:18 utc jmettraux ciao !